Thanks for a great first day!
Please watch this documentary on hacking and Anonymous.
Then, please make a comment on this post by 9:00 PM on Monday addressing the following question and making an argument about it. Early on in the video, a lyric by Bob Dylan is quoted: "To live outside the law you must be honest." What do you think this means, as it applies to ethical hacking but also in general? Is it possible to both be honest and live outside the law? Support this with ideas, reasons, and examples. Sign your post with your real first name and last initial--or, if you don't want to do that, email Monica (email is on the syllabus) and tell me who you are.
Stay safe in the snow!
Bob Dylan’s quote can have various meanings, depending on what type of message/purpose the ethical hacker is trying to prove or convey. I feel that many people do not necessarily agree with the law, and feel that the law and government officials hold many secrets that can benefit society either for education purposes or safety purposes. Hackers may feel that they are being honest for believing this, and when they choose to expose such secrets, they consider it honesty for revealing the “truth.”
ReplyDeleteTherefore, I feel it is indeed possible to be both honest and live outside the law because to define what is right and wrong (the law) with ethics is close to impossible due to different religions, environments, upbringings, cultures, and so on. When I think of living outside the law and being honest, I think of it in a sense that I may be doing something that’s considered “legally” wrong. But, in my world it’s not wrong, because I’m not doing anything to maliciously harm others, I’m doing it for a sense of something I believe in; sending a helpful message, or something along those lines. For instance, Aaron Swartz believed in important documents, etc. being free of charge to the public, so he hacked different networks to steal such information to make it public. I am not saying it was right to steal costly information, but in his world he was being honest by choosing to do what he believed in by making important documents public for everyone and living outside the law by doing so. If people chose to live within the law and follow the law all the time, and not stand their ground to convey messages (not just in the technology world) many laws wouldn't have adapted to new societies (e.g black and white segregation, women’s voting, etc.).
-Zombiesliketurtles
The phrase “To live outside the law, you must be honest” can be misleading, powerful, and or fatal to oneself and others. Of course this is all highly dependent on the person itself and what one’s moral standard is. The way we perceive things around us, and take into consideration what our next course of action(s) may or may not be, could be dangerous. The reason I believe this phrase could be dangerous is because of how much damage one could inflict upon themselves and others. When one has their eyes set on what is wrong is wrong, they will continue on that path where they believe, they have a chance to correct it.
ReplyDeleteIn recent times, there are now a continuing trend of national security breaches upon us. Cases such as Edward Snowden, and Bradley Manning are prime examples. This is not the first time we have ever heard of such cases, but the severity are becoming bigger and greater. The general population is now geared towards the “ultimate truth”. Now I fully agree with the most of America demanding the truth, there are just some things that we should and shouldn’t know. Maybe certain things such as government covering up “Alien Invasions” is a good thing but, if it’s anything related to national security which puts lives at risk, there is a point where one’s moral standards should not pass. Should one life, or multiple lives be sacrificed for a moral victory?
With that in mind, certain people in the right place, at the right time, with an ultimatum state of mind will do whatever its necessary to follow through with what they believe is correct. This state of mind is what one understands as being “honest” and “truthful”. It could lead one to their demise. One could go to jail for the rest of their life (Manning), or be portrayed as an enemy of a state/country (Snowden). All it matters at the end is they get their message across and show the world what is right or wrong.
In the case of Edward Snowden, one can portray him as a traitor or a patriot. He worked as a NSA contractor who in turn had access to highly sensitive information. One could say he had a moral obligation to himself and the country where he could have continued to do his job and live a happy life. But instead, he made a life-changing decision to disclose classified information where it had a possibility of putting the country at risk. To the greater extent of the damage being exposed is still immeasurable but other countries now hate the U.S more than ever. In his mind, I am quite confident he foresaw what was going to happen to him pending his actions, but he still followed through with his actions at the end of the day. He did not care that this could put his life, or his family’s life in jeopardy. He believed in a higher judgment that people had the right to know what the government is doing, and was willing to risk it all. Quite dangerous if you ask me.
Bradley Manning was also considered a traitor. He leaked classified information which could put Americans lives at stake. Based on the convictions, his actions could easily have resulted in a death sentence, but facing 22 charges resulted in a guilty plea of 35 years. Was any of this worthwhile? I doubt it. Manning could have been a person who just wanted to go out and make a name for himself. The reveal of classified information may have been one way for him to get out of the army. But regardless of what I think, these examples prove that one will go out of their way and risk it all and do what is necessary because they believe it is the right thing to do.
We all have our different points of views, which is what makes it so special. This is what makes us human. Regardless if it’s the right or wrong decision, it matters because we as human beings voice our opinions based on our actions and it should be up to the people to judge what is morally/technically right or wrong. But again, one should also be able to live with themselves with decisions they make, followed by the consequences of the actions that are yet to come. Quite a dangerous statement!
The quote to live outside the law you must be honest means that in order to be succeed in a situation where you are operating outside the normal legal boundaries you must be exercise a great deal of control and moral fortitude. This quote applies to the nature of your purpose and that the reason for not accomplishing your objective through legal purposes is valid and necessary to achieve progress for the majority. This applies to ethical hacking directly as there are times where you will be operating on a plane where you could use your power for evil or for your own end. Instead you should be honest in order to maintain the integrity of your position. That in order to police and enforce security efficiently you must not break any laws yourself or you will be no different than the people you are trying to stop. In general i think applies on the same lines.That if no one is watching you, you should still act in a manner befitting a good citizen,
ReplyDeleteIt is absolutely a possibility to be honest and live outside the law. For example undercover federal agents are put in a position where they have to live among criminals as an outlaw and still maintain a strong moral level where they don't commit crimes. It has been accomplished in the past to infiltrate criminal organizations without compromising the agent or their soul for lack of a better word.
Mr E
I think the line means that if your not going to accept the social standards that society puts on its members and obey its rules, so to speak, then the only way you can maintain credibility is to be honest to your own social standard. For instance with regard to ethical hacking and cyber crime, the hackers knew that by attacking PayPal, they were probably breaking some law. But the group believed that Wikileaks had served a valid purpose and when PayPal exerted the power and influence they possessed to stop donations from being paid to Wikileaks, they exerted their power to interfere with PayPal. In the real world, we understand that it is illegal to punch someone, but if you see strong person bullying a weaker person, you may be inclined to punch them in the face because the defense of a weaker person will out weigh your desire to obey the law and keep your hands to yourself. So you break the law to be honest with your convictions about protecting those in need of help.
ReplyDeleteMike L.
Blog post for ethical hacking class
ReplyDelete“To live outside the law you must be honest.”
The first thing I would say to that is that honesty is not always black and white. There are gray areas with honesty. A person can be honest with a certain group of people or one particular person and dishonest with another group of people or one particular person. Or, a person can be honest about certain things and dishonest about other things.
I think most people – in one way or another – lie every day, or almost every day. Does that make them dishonest or a bad person? Not necessarily. Recently I was certified in CPR. In our training, we were taught to comfort people and always tell them, “It’s going to be okay.” Sometimes that will be a lie, but it is for a good cause, to keep people calm. When people go to a grocery store and go to checkout, the cashier may ask, “How’s your day going?” or “How are you today?” Without hesitating, often times we say something along the lines of, “I’m good,” and continue on checking out. Are we always telling the truth in that circumstance? Many of us don’t want to burden complete strangers with our problems, which is why we respond that way. It isn’t a matter of being dishonest necessarily, it is withholding information – information that a particular person likely doesn’t need or want to know in the first place. If people are honest most of the time they appear to be trustworthy, and when they need to they can live outside the law. I think maybe that is what the quote is talking about in general.
“To live outside the law you must be honest.” – Ethical hackers are supposed to know the law and follow the law, but they must also have an idea or know specifically what to expect from those who don’t follow the law. The more an ethical hacker knows the mind and tendencies of a non-ethical hacker, the more successful he or she will be. An ethical hacker must be honest with the people or company he or she is working for – that is where the ethical part comes into play. On page 17, our textbook makes and interesting point: “If being liked by others is important to you, you might want to consider a different profession than security testing. If you’re good at your job, many IT employees resent you discovering vulnerabilities in their system. In fact, it’s one of the only professions in which the better you do your job, the more enemies you make!”
Jake S.
Before we start, let us define some key terms in the quote. Firstly, “law”, which is defined as “a system of rules and guidelines which are enforced through social institutions to govern behavior” (Wikipedia, lines 3-6). Secondly, “honest”, can be defined as “Marked by or displaying integrity; upright” (thefreedictionary, bullet 1). Also, with a little more research, I found that “The very object of social order is to promote honesty, and to restrain dishonesty; to do justice and to prevent injustice.” (legal-dictionary, bullet 2). From this, we can see that the very purpose of laws is to promote honesty. Therefore, honesty is a learned trait. As children, we are taught the difference between right and wrong, and whenever we do something wrong we are punished or negatively encouraged not to re-do those wrong things. When we don’t do those wrong things and do good things instead, we are positively encouraged, thus making s want to keep doing them. This is similar to the purpose of laws. If we follow them we don’t get into trouble. With growth and constant reinforcement of these “laws” we learn to be good and not bad, to be honest and not dishonest.
ReplyDeleteI believe that it is somewhat not possible to live outside of the law and be honest. Even if you live outside of a specific social law, there will have to be a law (probably a personal law) which governs our actions to be honest. There cannot be honesty without some form of law. Although it won’t always be called a law. A belief can somewhat be a law. Once it teaches you to be honest outside of another law. However, this arises the question of whether that law is appropriate for the social environment you reside. I can have a law within my room that I can eat freely, however, my roommate might have a law in their room that no one is allowed to eat in their room and if I try to go against their law then I’m not being honest. What it all boils down to, is the law (your law) appropriate? Is it Ethical?
Thanks
Rajesh S.
Initially the quote “To live outside the law you must be honest” seems nonsensical. The idea of living outside the law is often equated with of theft and robbery. These acts are often associated with lying and dishonesty as these are required to avoid imprisonment, and thus perpetuating the idea of “living outside the law.” Thus the initial and literal interpretation of the quote is an innapropriate understanding.
ReplyDeleteInstead the figurative interpretation of the quote provides a more sensical understanding. The idea of “Living outside the law” should not be interpreted as committing crime in general, instead it should be interpreted as “To live a meaningful life outside the law…” Using this interpretation the whole quote can be more clearly understood: being honest will lead to a meaningful life outside the law.
But what does this mean? Some interpret living a meaningful life as living a life that you believe in. But if you live a life that is outside the law does that not mean that you live a life that you do not believe in? This is only the case if you believe that the law is correct. If you believe otherwise, then you are able to live outside the law. But where does being honest come into play? The idea of being honest is often only interpreted as telling someone something truthful. In this case being honest is taken as an honesty to the self: living outside the law requires you to believe that what you are doing is correct. That is the meaning of the quote. In the case of the documentary several Anons who hacked and disrupted Scientology’s web infrastructure understood that what they were doing was outside of the law, but at the same time they believed that what they were doing overall was the correct thing to do.
This quote does not serve as a decree for those who live outside the law, but instead it serves as a guide for those who wish to live a meaningful and true life whose views may not sync with the law. Living outside the law and not believing what you do only leads to inner turmoil, but if one believes in their own actions, the only wrong ones are those who oppose them.
- Chancellor Amidala
I think what Bob Dylan meant when he said that line was you can sometimes break the law if the reason for it was moral and justified. Anonymous challenged the government because they felt that the government shouldn't hide information from citizens. They felt that the punishment for hacking was ridiculous and I agree. I think it's crazy that a person who hacks into a computer gets more jail time than a person who committed murder. All they were tying to do is make a statement about their feelings. They shouldn't be punished for that. When Anonymous hacked into Egypt, it made a difference. The president decided to resign probably because of all the noise anonymous was making. I believe If you are passionate about something, you should fight for it. Even if there is possibility that you might break the law, at the end of the day, you made a big difference in someone's life in a positive way.That's something to feel good about.
ReplyDeleteSarah M.
“To live outside the law you must be honest”
ReplyDeleteWell we live in a world were the “word”, honor had lost it values overtime. In general this idea means that as a society we have to stand for our ideas and for what is right, even though many times that goes against the law of the government. If we really want to live “outside the law” we need to be honest with ourselves as well as with others. Now in terms of ethical hacking, this idea of “live outside the law you must be honest” is the idea that we have to live outside the laws that govern Internet and computers. As one person said in the video, they don’t care for our religion, our way of being, or if we agree or disagree, what they care about is: us stating our opinion and standing up for it, even though that may look bad to the government people but we have to live outside those laws in order to be free.
Yes, is possible to live and be honest outside the law. Because to be honest, is what will bring us to live outside these laws, and to live the way we want it. But we have to be ready, because once we starting living Honest, people who disagree with us will come after us, just like they do with Anonymous. We can’t be honest and live outside the law, because the truth will set us free.
Redeemed kid
The quote "To live outside the law you must be honest '' I think the line means is following what you believe is honest and not some of the accepting the law. but this line can look different way like, many people not believe or agree with law. The purpose i think ethical hacking and cyber crime were speaking out for there right, but they knew that they were some law. as in video it said hacking can used for good and evil. It on as what purpose we breaking the law and what we stand for good or bad
ReplyDeletesohel khalifa
I think what Bob Dylan meant by that quote was that you can break the law as long as the reason for doing so is moral and justified. Anonymous felt justified to hack into the government site because they felt that it wasn't right for the government to hide information from the American people. When Egypt was in violence and peril and the internet was taken away, Anonymous was deeply affected by it. They felt justified to bring back the internet to Egypt because in their mind, it wasn't right for the government to take it away. If you are passionate about something, you should fight for it!!!
ReplyDelete